Pagad leader Abdus-Salaam Ebrahim on Tuesday took the stand for the second time to answer questions relating to cassettes and video footage of speeches he had made. The material was submitted as "new evidence" in his bail hearing.
State prosecutor Willie Viljoen sought to establish context to Ebrahim's many rhetorical statements at Pagad rallies. Ebrahim said that most of what he had said was "symbolic" and should be seen in that context.
Ebrahim was arrested in December and faces charges for the murder of Hard Livings gang leader Rashaad Staggie, the attempted murder of former Pagad leader Ali Parker, extortion and intimidation.
A speech found on the computer belonging to Ebrahim's wife, seized during the raid on his Lansdowne home, was presented to the court as new evidence on Tuesday, along with the video and audio tapes.
Defence counsel Dup de Bruin objected to the new evidence because of the urgency of his client's bail application. However, magistrate Jan van Zyl allowed the evidence as "it is in the interest of justice and might be favourable to the applicant's case".
The speech made reference to a "war", "striking terror into the hearts of the enemy of Allah" and "striking fear into the hearts of gangsters and economic gangsters".
Ebrahim said the words were directly quoted from the Qur'an. "We never use any forms of aggression. We use thousands of people to march on them and in that way strike fear into their hearts.
"It is a theological debate that we need to go into. You can't ask me this outside of that context," Ebrahim said.
In the transcript of another speech, made on the Muslim holy day of Eid in 1998, Ebrahim spoke of "pulling the trigger" and "death to gangsterism".
"I was speaking in symbolic terms," he explained.
Video footage was then played of a Pagad meeting held at the Gatesville mosque where Ebrahim delivered a speech shortly after Pagad medic Yusuf Jacobs was shot dead in police action in the protest against the visit of British prime minister Tony Blair last year.
"Most of the Muslim clergy are gangsters. They don't want to sacrifice, go to prison or die for the cause of Allah," Ebrahim said on the recording.
"We are going to forcefully remove these people who occupy the mosques and pulpits. We have a machinery in place that we have not unleashed in this country. The police, NIA and corrupt imams better disappear off the face of the earth. We are going to hit you as hard as we hit our enemies."
Ebrahim explained that the "machinery" he referred to was the potential number of "people who belong to the army of God" but had not yet joined the "programme". He said the word "hit" was symbolic of Pagad's pressure on opponents.
During the speech, Ebrahim said it was "our duty to implement an eye-for-an-eye principle when a brother was killed".
Ebrahim said that the statement referred to a call to bring back the death penalty.
The bail application resumes on Wednesday.