Video by Timothy Bernard
Johannesburg - The Judicial Services Commission (JSC) began their deliberations over who to recommend for appointment on Saturday morning, and if the conduct of Commissioners at acting Chief Justice Raymond Zondo's interview was anything to go by, they may be locked in for hours.
Zondo was the last of the four candidates to be interviewed for the top job this week. His marathon interview went on for close to 12 hours and ended in mayhem, with Commissioners Julius Malema and Ronald Lamola in a screaming match.
The argument ensued when questions were raised around how Gauteng Judge President Dunstan Mlambo’s acting stint at the Constitutional Court came to be.
Malema accused Lamola of acting unlawfully when he wrote to Zondo suggesting he appoint Mlambo to act. Malema said the move is seen as Lamola prepping Mlambo to get a feel of the Constitutional Court before being shortlisted as a Chief Justice nominee.
Commissioner Dali Mpofu added to the mix and said the minister's actions were unlawful.
Malema and Mpofu put questions to Zondo around Mlambo's appointment.
Malema asked him if it was a norm for a minister to send someone to act at the apex court.
Zondo said it was not the norm and he did find it unusual. He later stated that he was not saying it was unlawful.
Lamola denied that there was anything illegal about his request to Zondo and insisted the request was made lawfully, within his rights as a Minister of Justice and made before Mlambo was shortlisted as a Chief Justice candidate.
Malema's suggestion that Lamola failed in convincing former Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng that Mlambo should act at the apex court so Lamola "waited for him to go". This resulted in a screaming match between the two.
"No, no, acting chairperson, that's a lie, it's a blue lie what commissioner Malema is saying," Lamola shouted.
Malema shouted back: "But don't say I'm lying. What do you mean I'm lying? Do not say I'm lying! That is disrespectful!"
Video: Timothy Bernard/African News Agency (ANA)
While acting JSC chairperson Xola Petse allowed this to continue for a few minutes, another commissioner called on him to take charge of his meeting.
Lamola then withdrew his comment that Malema was lying and raised that it was " out of order".
The commissioners have been accused of using these Chief Justice interviews to play politics, address rumours and settle personal scores.
It was Petse who erroneously read out a letter from a Rhodes University legal scholar who said she believes the interviews may be open to review in a court of law.
The scholar said questions put to Justice Mandisa Maya were sexist and questions around "whisperings" that Mlambo sexually assaulted female colleagues was unlawfully put to him even though it was later expunged from the record.
Most of Zondo's interview centred around his chairing of the State Capture inquiry and his recent response to Minister Lindiwe Sisulu's opinion piece criticising the judiciary.
Malema asked about the release of the final report that may implicate President Cyril Ramaphosa and why Zondo did not include findings around the President in the reports already released to avoid the issue that Ramaphosa may feel obligated to give Zondo the job.
"Is that not a sword on the neck of the President?" Malema asked.
Zondo said he did not think about it from that angle and added that in deciding on the three-part series release of the report, it was not intentional that Ramaphosa’s findings would not be in the first or second part. He said it was just a matter of deciding which portions of the full report were ready for release at certain times.
"There was no conscious decision to say, 'Oh no, that part must come later,'" said Zondo.
Mlambo was asked about unsubstantiated rumours of sexual harassment involving him. He also defended his track record and denied suggestions that he had a “judicial hit squad” at the Gauteng High Court, Pretoria – including a junior judge – which he used to rig the outcomes of cases through the use of full Bench panels.
Justice Maya did not skip a beat when she was asked if South Africa was ready for a woman Chief Justice. She told the panel that such a question should not even be asked.
Video: Timothy Bernard/African News Agency (ANA)
Maya argued that women were not a special group that needed a favour.
“I don't think it's a proper question to ask because it implies a lot of negative things... South Africa has always been ready to have a female Chief Justice.
“We had strong capable women in the ConCourt and other courts," she said.
The JSC, who are currently in the middle of deliberations, is expected to submit a name of recommendation to the President soon.
A press briefing after they conclude deliberations is expected to take place on Saturday.
Political Bureau